Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

Discussão geral sobre a liga universitaria americana, projeções e futuros drafts da NBA

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ocubo

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Mensagem por ocubo » Qua Nov 13, 2013 9:29 am

Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

Assisti ontem metade do jogo entre Duke e Kansas, interessado em ver o Wiggins, mas fiquei impressionado com o Jabari Parker. Me lembrou muito o Carmelo, só que mais inteligente. Sabe infiltrar, passar, tem velocidade, é forte e se deixar ele vai matar as bolas de onde for.

Wiggins brilhou na segunda metade, mas acabei não vendo.

Vai ser divertido acompanhar essa classe que também tem o Randle começando muito forte, entre outros.
"Era um garoto que como eu, trocava o Harden pelo Bledshow..."
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Nepopop

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Mensagem por Nepopop » Qua Nov 13, 2013 9:37 am

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

tava querendo ver esse jogo mas capotei. vi o fim do jogo do randle e curti o caos que ele aprontou.

vc viu a metade errada do wiggins.

ele dominou no segundo tempo. :D
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Raoni_19

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Mensagem por Raoni_19 » Qua Nov 13, 2013 12:57 pm

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

Parker e Randle brigando pelo #1, mostraram força ontem.

Wiggins foi dominante, vencedor, mas um primeiro tempo bem apático. Veremos os próximos capítulos, se basear em um jogo é loucura também.
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evanhenrique

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Mensagem por evanhenrique » Qua Nov 13, 2013 1:07 pm

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

Star power como há um bom tempo não se via na NCAA. Top 5 dessa classe vai ser insano.
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L.A. Lakers

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Mensagem por L.A. Lakers » Qua Nov 13, 2013 2:17 pm

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

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rafael aguiar

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Mensagem por rafael aguiar » Seg Nov 25, 2013 4:31 pm

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

Parker no Magicão: Eu acredito
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ocubo

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Mensagem por ocubo » Qui Nov 28, 2013 12:19 pm

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

ESPN Stats & Info ‏@ESPNStatsInfo 9h
3 freshmen in last 10 seasons have scored 20 points in each of team's first 7 games- Kevin Durant, Eric Gordon, Jabari Parker
Joga demais.
"Era um garoto que como eu, trocava o Harden pelo Bledshow..."
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Nightmare Magnano

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Mensagem por Nightmare Magnano » Ter Dez 03, 2013 1:55 am

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

Napier!!!!!!
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linelson

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Mensagem por linelson » Dom Dez 08, 2013 9:58 am

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

Messi is the first player in history to score 3 goals against Real at the Bernabeu

Times a player averaged 30 PPG, 10 RPG, 8 APG in #NBAFinals: LeBron: 2, every other player in NBA history: 0

LeBron: led all players on both teams in pts, reb, assists, steals and blocks in series (2016 FINALS)
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erick#9

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Mensagem por erick#9 » Seg Dez 09, 2013 5:09 pm

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

Sou mais o Jabari do que o Wiggins! Mais completo..
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Xapato

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Mensagem por Xapato » Seg Dez 23, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

Embiid será o nº 1 do Draft :wink:

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LAWRENCE — Andrew Wiggins is the sort of 18-year-old kid who relishes a defensive challenge. He is 6 feet 8 with a 40-inch vertical and freakishly long arms. So in most cases, there’s not a player that Wiggins couldn’t guard.

This is the player, after all, who begged Kansas coach Bill Self to let him guard Duke star Jabari Parker during the Jayhawks’ victory over the Blue Devils earlier this season. And when Self said no? No problem. Wiggins just switched onto Parker on his own.

So this is the context for late last week. It was a Friday morning in Lawrence, a few minutes before another KU practice, and Wiggins was asked whether he’d ever tried to guard 7-foot teammate Joel Embiid during practice.

Wiggins shook his head. That was a no.

“He’s too big,” Wiggins said, flashing a subtle smile. “Even if I did, it wouldn’t matter. He’s 7 foot. He’s longer than me, he’s stronger than me and he has a bunch of post moves. He’s so skilled. So I wouldn’t.”

Wiggins is a smart kid, of course, and his reticence to body up Embiid at practice is probably a solid move. More and more, it’s the same sentiment being shared by opponents across the country.

“He just has so many different moves,” says KU redshirt freshman forward Landen Lucas, who does get the honor of guarding Embiid in practice. “And his steps are so big. He can keep one pivot foot and still get from one block to the other.”

Maybe you saw the “Dream Shake” move that Embiid pulled off in a win over New Mexico. Maybe you saw the 15-foot jumper that Embiid is employing with increasing regularity. Those are the moves, Lucas says, that KU players see every day in practice. But now, after 11 college games, Embiid is beginning to show glimpses of his entire offensive arsenal.

After scoring 17 points on four-of-four shooting in Kansas’ 86-64 victory over Georgetown on Saturday, Embiid is now averaging 10.5 points and 6.6 rebounds during his freshman season. He is shooting 68 percent from the field and nearly 71 percent on two-point field goals. (Despite being 7 feet and having played organized basketball for just three seasons, Embiid has still been confident enough to have hoisted up two threes this season.)

Against Georgetown, Embiid managed 17 points on just four shots. And it forced Self to think about Embiid’s potential on offense:

“What about if he’s taking 12 shots per game?” Self said. “So we’ve got to play through him more.”

If you listened to Self in October, it was always easy to envision Embiid taking on a larger role come conference time. Now that time is almost here. And perhaps even Self has to be surprised by Embiid’s offensive efficiency. As Embiid rockets up the NBA Draft board projections, his freshman numbers align with some of the best college centers in recent memory (See numbers below). If you adjust for playing time — and extrapolate the numbers over 40 minutes — Embiid is averaging 20.4 points and 13.1 rebounds.

So let’s look at the freshman seasons of a few other centers who would go No. 1 in the NBA Draft. In 2006-07, Ohio State’s Greg Oden averaged 21.7 points and 13.2 rebounds per 40 minutes while leading the Buckeyes to the NCAA title game. And then two seasons ago, Kentucky freshman Anthony Davis led the Wildcats to an NCAA title while averaging 17.7 points and 13 rebounds per 40 minutes.

Embiid’s sample size is still relatively small, of course, so maybe he won’t shoot 68 percent for the season. But he is also still improving at a rather rapid rate. It leads to the easy question: How good could he be in March?

“If you watch him every day, nothing surprises you,” Self said. “The kid can do anything. He’s smart, and he’s a sponge. Now, that does not translate to him playing well (all the time), not at all. He’s going to have games where he has six points and four rebounds, and he’ll have games where he gets 20 and 12, and a lot of that is just experience and knowing how to plug himself into the game.

“But when you think about gifted with hands and feet and intellect and things like that, I don’t think anything really surprises you.”

With that in mind — and with Embiid projecting as a potential lottery pick — we looked at the freshman numbers of four college centers who eventually went No. 1 in the NBA Draft: Shaquille O’Neal, Andrew Bogut, Greg Oden and Anthony Davis.

O’Neal stayed three seasons at LSU before making the jump to the NBA, while Bogut, an Australian, would stay two at Utah. After 11 games, Embiid’s scoring numbers (per 40 minutes) are comparable to freshman Shaq and freshman Oden, while his rebounding numbers are similar to all but Shaq, who was simply a monster on the boards even as an 18-year-old. Here are the numbers, all per 40 minutes:

• Joel Embiid, Kansas, 2013-14: 20.4 points / 13.1 rebounds / 4.4 blocks / 10.6 FGA / 68.3 FG%

• Anthony Davis, Kentucky, 2011-12: 17.7 points / 13.0 rebounds / 5.8 blocks / 10.5 FGA / 62.3 FG%

• Greg Oden, Ohio State, 2006-07: 21.7 points / 13.2 rebounds / 4.5 blocks / 13.3 FGA / 61.6 FG%

• Andrew Bogut, Utah, 2003-04: 16.4 points / 13 rebounds / 1.8 blocks / 11.6 FGA / 57.7 FG%

• Shaquille O’Neal, LSU, 1989-90: 19.8 points / 17.1 rebounds / 5.1 blocks / 13.9 FGA / 57.3 FG%
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Mellinari

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Mensagem por Mellinari » Qua Dez 25, 2013 11:27 pm

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

Se vai ser o primeiro eu não sei, mas ele tá dando toda a pinta de que pode se tornar o principal prospect entre os pivôs desse draft. Fisicamente ele sobra muito!
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DwyaneWade3

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Mensagem por DwyaneWade3 » Qui Dez 26, 2013 9:40 am

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

Já fizeram até o video de Scout. Rapaz... Esse ano eles tão rápidos! hauauhuauhaauh

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Sorriso

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Mensagem por Sorriso » Sáb Jan 04, 2014 9:19 pm

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

Concordo muito com o autor aí. Acho totalmente bizarra essa cultura de pegar uns guris que mal sairam do colégio e botar num patamar de allstars no país inteiro. Sem falar na pressão em cima desses moleques.

O que tenho visto com essa onda de freshmans superstars é que eles tem chegado cada vez menos preparados fisicamente, mentalmente e as vezes até tecnicamente quando passam pra NBA. Só ver as ultimas duas classes do draft da NBA. O Anthony Davis e o Kidd-Gilchrist de 2012, por exemplo, que eram os freshman sensação da classe são ótimos jogadores, claro, mas com a cabeça fraca, pouco espírito de liderança, etc. Isso sem falar nos calouros da classe de 2013, né?

O Lillard, que foi premiado o rookie do ano passado com muita justiça, já saiu da universidade pra NBA como um Senior, com a cabeça muito mais preparada pro que seria a vida de um profissional.

Acho que a NBA devia adotar o modelo da NFL pro recrutamento do Draft, podendo ser selecionados apenas jogadores com pelo menos 3 anos de experiência no College, pelo bem da liga e pelo bem dos próprios atletas. Eu vejo na NFL os calouros chegando com muito mais preparação pra vida profissional do que na NBA.

Sem falar que uma medida assim torna o próprio College Basketball muito mais legal de acompanhar, seguindo a carreira dos garotos por vários anos dentro da faculdade, vendo o crescimento e o amadurecimento deles até chegar à NBA.
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Deco

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Mensagem por Deco » Qua Jan 08, 2014 11:17 am

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

Boa Sorriso! Tenho um pensamento por esse lado também. As vezes (em sua maioria) os caras estão saindo cedo demais pra NBA.

--

Sobre o Randle, achei uma reportagem interessante falando justamente de um dos pontos fracos dele, que é o wingspan.
Wingspan: The big problem with Julius Randle's NBA upside

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Kentucky's Julius Randle looks the part of a big-time prospect. At 6'9 and 250 pounds, he's a 19-year-old with the body of a grown man. His combination of size and athleticism makes him nearly indefensible at the college level. Kentucky has been up-and-down in non-conference play, but Randle has lived up to the hype. He is a double-double machine averaging 18 points and 11 rebounds on 57 percent shooting.

But when you project his game to the NBA, there is one glaring flaw that would make me nervous if I used a top-five pick on him.

Randle is built like a Tyrannosaurus Rex: all torso and no arms. He has a 6'11 wingspan, per Draft Express, which is enormous in most contexts, but not the super-sized world of the NBA paint. When matched up against the best power forwards in the world, he's going to have a significant length disadvantage, a problem that could impact his game on both sides of the ball.

In almost any basketball context, having longer arms than your opponent is helpful. The guy with the longer arms can shoot over the top of of his defender. On defense, he can play a step farther back and still contest the other guy's shot. He has an easier time reaching for rebounds and getting hands in passing lanes. The closer you get to the basket, where there is less room to maneuver, the more important this becomes.

I learned this from personal experience. I was a 6'4 post player in high school, backing up guys who were 6'8 and 6'6. They both played D1 basketball, but I could still give them trouble in practice because I had really long arms. I had the length to make up for my lack of height, which made me comfortable matching up with them in the post. The best interior defenders in the NBA all have out-sized wingspans.

In writing this article, I looked through the DraftExpress measurements database for the wingspans of every starting power forward in the NBA. It's not comprehensive, as I could only find data on 22 of the 30 starters, but the numbers are not encouraging.* Randle's 6'11 wingspan ranks dead last. The average is well over 7'0; even undersized 4s like Paul Millsap (7'1.5) and Brandon Bass (7'2.5) have an advantage.

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Only three of the 22 I found have wingspans below 7'0: Blake Griffin (6'11.25), Kevin Love (6'11.25) and Thaddeus Young (6'11.5). That's quite the trio, but it's also a group that screams "survivorship bias." In other words: You have to be a really good player to survive as a short-armed power forward in the NBA.

Randle is really good, but not in the ways Griffin, Love and Young are. Randle can play above the rim, but he's not in Blake's category as an athlete. Pretty much no one is. And while Randle has some perimeter skills, he's hardly the ball-handling and passing wizard Blake has become. Love is an elite three-point shooter and passer, two skills Randle has not shown at Kentucky. Young is a small-ball power forward who plays 20-plus feet from the basket and started his career at small forward.

Randle is often compared to Zach Randolph, another 6'9 left-hander. Z-Bo, though, has some of the longest arms at the position in the NBA. His wingspan is not in the DX database, but a Google search of "Zach Randolph wingspan" turns up results in the 7'4-7'5 range. That explains how he consistently scores over bigger and more athletic defenders; he has arms like a condor. Griffin's 6'11.25 wingspan, in contrast, is one reason why he can struggle in post.

That doesn't mean Randle won't be able to score at the next level. Even without great length, he's got a massive frame, a high motor and a nose for the ball. However, he will have to diversify his offense to thrive. In college, he mostly bullies power forwards who can't match up with him physically. In the NBA, he will have to be a better shooter and he will need to use his right hand. No matter where he is on the floor, he always goes back to his left. It's funny when you start watching for it.

The real concerns are on the other end of the floor. Randle averages 0.1 steals and 0.7 blocks, awful for a big man with his athleticism. Kevin Pelton of ESPN Insider has found that block and steal rates in college are important tools when projecting big men prospects. I suspect that's because they capture the problems players with comparatively short arms can have.

Here's an example of Randle "protecting" the rim in Kentucky's win over Louisville:

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Russ Smith is 6'0 and 165 pounds. The guards are a lot bigger in the NBA.

Individual defense might be an even bigger issue. It's not something I recognized immediately, because so few college big men have the length and skill to score over the top of Randle. For me, the eye-opening experience was Kentucky's loss to Baylor, when he was matched up with fellow Dallas-area big man Isaiah Austin (7'1 and 225 pounds with a 7'3 wingspan).

Austin talked a bunch of trash beforehand, like he knew Randle had no chance of guarding him, and that's exactly how it played out in the few first minutes. Austin took Randle to the block and hit a fadeaway, and then he went out to the perimeter and hit a pull-up three. At halftime, John Calipari switched defensive assignments, putting Willie Cauley-Stein on Austin and hiding Randle on Baylor's other big man. Few NCAA teams have two NBA-caliber big men, so Randle's individual defense is not a huge concern for Kentucky. That won't be the case at the next level, though.

It's hard to build around a player with Randle's skill-set. He is a post-scoring big man who can't protect the rim. If you play him with a big man who can't stretch the floor, there won't be much room in the paint for him to operate. If you play him with another big man who can't protect the rim, your defense will be limited. There aren't many NBA centers who can shoot, block shots and play hi-low to preserve proper spacing. Randolph didn't find much team success until he started playing with Marc Gasol, one of those rare birds. The same dynamic has blunted the impact Al Jefferson and DeMarcus Cousins make on their teams despite gaudy offensive numbers.

And while Randle should average a double-double in the NBA, his style of play is not conducive to the way the league is going. More teams are spreading the floor and playing with four shooting threats, which won't work with Randle, since he doesn't have the defensive chops to be the lone big man on the floor. He will have to be on a two-post team like Indiana or Memphis, one that slows the tempo, maintains spacing and throws the ball inside. However, that's a style many guards aren't comfortable managing.

In the right situation, playing next to one of those rare floor-spacing and rim-protecting big man like Serge Ibaka or Anthony Davis, Randle could be a really good player on a championship-caliber team. In the wrong one, though, drafting Randle could end up setting a team back significantly. In the NBA, the shorter your arms, the harder it is to reach your ceiling.

Fonte: http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/1/2/52 ... spect-2013
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Nightmare Magnano

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Mensagem por Nightmare Magnano » Qui Jan 09, 2014 1:06 pm

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

Randle me lembra muito o Tyler.
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Mensagem por claudio__ » Qui Jan 16, 2014 7:53 pm

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

achei que eu tava viajando por achar o corpo do Randle parecido com o Bass, agr vi que eles tem algumas medidas semelhantes. obs.: falei do corpo e não da habilidade


parece que já tem um top 6 ''definido'': Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Smart, Exum e Randle, não necessariamente nessa ordem.
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erick#9

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Mensagem por erick#9 » Qui Jan 16, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

claudio__ escreveu:parece que já tem um top 6 ''definido'': Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Smart, Exum e Randle, não necessariamente nessa ordem.
Acho que não sai disso mesmo, com a #1 entre Embiid e Wiggins!
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Raoni_19

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Mensagem por Raoni_19 » Qui Jan 16, 2014 11:01 pm

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

Vi o McDermott jogar, interessante no nível NCAA.
Pesado, com abertura legal pro perímetro, ótimo chute, força pra somar na defesa e apanhar rebotes.
Na NBA não sei como se portará, parece meio lerdo/pesado, mas é forte e tem chute, então algum role deve conseguir achar.

Boa pick pra fazer entre 12-18.
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claudio__

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Mensagem por claudio__ » Sex Jan 17, 2014 12:20 am

Re: Classe de 2014 - Wiggins, Randle, Parker...

relatório do bleacher report sobre o Exum = http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1921 ... dante-exum
A big reason why the NBA piques Exum's interest is because it's a point guard-friendly league. His dream teams are the Orlando Magic and Los Angeles Lakers, as he's friends with Victor Oladipo—they met at Indiana during Exum's recruiting visit—and Kobe Bryant is one of his two favorite players (the other is Derrick Rose).
to começando a gostar desse mlq. wingspan 6'9'', altura 6'6'', bem rápido, acho que pode ser um grande jogador, e tem 18 anos ainda

tem mts jogadores interessantes nesse draft. os caras do Kentucky, Vonleh de Indiana, etc. realmente vai ser uma boa classe.
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